Brent Warner 0:00
This is the HigherEdTech podcast Season 5, Episode 18: Tech Mistakes Teachers Make.

Tim Van Norman 0:19
Welcome to today’s HigherEdTech podcast. I am Tim VanNorman, the Instructional Technologist at Irvine Valley College.

Brent Warner 0:25
And I’m Brent Warner, Professor of ESL here at IVC. We both enjoy integrating technology into the classroom, which is what this show is all about.

Tim Van Norman 0:33
Welcome. We’re glad you’re here with us. So, Spring has sprung. Yeah. All right.

Brent Warner 0:40
Good, good for spring (laughter). So we’re kind of, Tim, at this point we’re in that weird mid semester, end of mid semester, but not at the end of the semester quite yet thing. And so I thought, you know, we’re kind of discussing a couple of ideas. And I was thinking, you know, there’s all these things, that this is kind of the time when teachers are in a little bit of a lull, but they then they start thinking, Okay, I have time to ask about these little mistakes I’ve been making are these problems, you know, instead of just trying to rush in the frazzle of getting through things. And so I think, you know, teachers come up and they say, I think I made a mistake, I accidentally deleted something, I did this thing, right. And so we thought it might just be a good time here to kind of step back from any one specific thing and just kind of dig into some general problems that teachers have with tech, and, and maybe just some suggestions on how to deal with them. Especially from your perspective, because I know you deal with a lot of teachers who come with these with these kinds of questions to you. So are you good to jump in?

Tim Van Norman 1:40
Absolutely. Let’s go for it.

Brent Warner 1:43
All right. So maybe I’ll ask the questions. And you can kind of give some feedback. And if I have any thoughts I’ll add in. But let’s start with kind of general like this is a little bit more, we’re starting off with a theme of software mistakes, maybe kind of along those lines, things that happen inside the computers or on the Internet or something. And so, first one that happens, hey, I accidentally deleted my students information on Canvas, or I deleted a class or something happened. What do I do?

Tim Van Norman 2:16
Well, so fortunately, Canvas has a couple of different features. One worst case, I can get back to the Friday before, so please don’t call me on Monday saying that last week, Thursday, I made a change. And I need to go back before that. Because chances are I can’t get back there. But if you call me on Tuesday saying Oh, last night I deleted a module, there’s a couple of different things that I can do one. And by the way, you can do the same thing. At the top of the URL, it says you know, instructure.com/courses/and number, if you put a slash undelete, you will get a list of things that have been undeleted in that class. Now it is not everything on delete things that have been deleted, or every that have been deleted. Okay, so you and delete them. And you go through and you find what you’re interested in and hit Restore. Now, my suggestion is restore several things, go back through and make sure you got exactly what you are looking for. Okay? Use multiple tabs, that type of thing, because you and you got to refresh your screen multiple times. But it does a really good job really quick of undeleting. Because realistically, Canvas is a database, it never actually delete something, it will overwrite it. But it doesn’t actually delete, it just puts a delete mark in it and says basically don’t show this anymore.

So it’s clearer than that.

Oh, yeah, that’s where I can go back to the Friday before. Okay. Okay. Again, this past Friday. So where this comes out on Thursday, I can go back to the past Friday, I cannot go to the prior Friday. So be very careful on this.

Brent Warner 4:13
So the worst the worst time to accidentally delete something. If you’re going to accidentally delete something, don’t do it on a Friday because then you’re right at the at the borderline, then

Tim Van Norman 4:24
that gets backed up and I’m stuck. There’s nothing I can do. Okay.

Brent Warner 4:27
All right. So then, so canvas, maybe that’s a solution there. And then we also get into like Google folders and Google Docs, right. So what about when people you know, if you’re working with Google side of things, what do we do there?

Tim Van Norman 4:42
Well, and the same thing, by the way happens on your computer. So in each of these cases, you have a trash bin and deleted items. In Outlook, you got the same thing. So in all of these environments, what they’ve done is they’ve created a space where when you delete something, it doesn’t actually delete until you you empty the deleted items or the trash. So as long as you haven’t done that, or it hasn’t been too long, so a lot of the online tools, Dropbox, OneDrive, Google, if it’s been a month, often they will get rid of the deleted items just to save space. But if you’ve deleted it, you realize you delete it, it, go back into the deleted items. And Google, for instance, has got to trash. And you can look at that. Now, here’s another neat thing. Let’s say instead of deleting it, you made a major change to a document and you didn’t want to, you want to roll it back. My suggestion is to first of all, save the current document as a new name. And the reason for that is because there’s probably a reason you made the change. So you want to get you want to save that you don’t necessarily want to ignore all possible changes, but so save it with a new name. And then you can go through revision history. And that at the top. So we’ve got, sometimes we’ve got tools, like drop back, but there’s, in Google, for instance, there is some ability to just go in and take a look at that revision history.

Brent Warner 6:15
Yeah, it’s a little, it’s a little clock icon with a backwards spinning, or backwards arrow, right? It’s like a circle arrow that kind of goes like that, like spinning clockwise, backwards in time, right? This one too. And, you know, all these years of working with Google is still telling people about this, there’s still so many teachers that don’t know about it. And this, I use it all the time for my students, because they’re like, I deleted something and like, and they’re like, Oh, well, I can’t, you know, Command Z it, or I did it, you know, two days ago, or whatever it is, and there, and then you click that button. And there’s a whole thing called revision history. And you can look at, like the major changes you’ve made. And a cool thing, too, that you can do with your students is save the names of those, right? So you can tell, hey, this is draft one, this is draft two, or whatever else it is. But it’s, I’ve seen so many students like, they’re like on the verge of tears, because they thought they lost all of their stuff. And it’s like, no, it’s all here, right. And so if you are not super into Google stuff, and I think this must be true and word at this point, too, and everything but but the revision history, so it saves everything that you’ve done, as long as you Yeah, as long as what you’re saying to him, you don’t revise it, and then lose the stuff that you made. After that, you don’t lose it, it’s still it’s still back. But then it becomes confusing, because you’re looking at old information that’s now back on top of new information. And so, so you do have to be a little bit careful about that.

Tim Van Norman 7:38
Great. And that is on any online environment. If you are just, if you’re in an application on your computer, a word app or something like that, it has a little bit of that, but not nearly the, the depth that you’re going to see in here. So just understand that, once you save a Word document and close it, that is your point in time, unless you are in an environment, an online environment like that.

Brent Warner 8:08
So alright, so some other ones. What happens when you get locked out of your account?

Tim Van Norman 8:15
So one of the beautiful things is that I get I get the call on Monday morning all the time, I’d Friday night at eight o’clock, I locked my account, can you unlock it so I can get in and work on stuff? Well, most of the time, unless something else is going on, and I’ll explain that in a second. Most of the time, if you’ve locked your account, wait half an hour, try it again, if that doesn’t work, wait another half hour. So either half an hour to an hour after the last time you tried it, it will unlock automatically typically, that is for most accounts, especially to deal with Microsoft email, those types of things that are set to automatically unlock because the last thing we want is for you to lock it at eight o’clock on Friday night and not have it unlocked until eight o’clock and sun on Monday morning.

Brent Warner 9:04
Okay, I have a question about this. Because this is one that’s kind of stuck with me before is like, Okay, I know that it’s going to unlock in an hour, for example, right? Do I have only one more chance at that one hour mark to get like the password right? Or do I still have do I get like another three or four chances at that time?

Tim Van Norman 9:22
So the way we have it set up and the way most of the environments I’ve worked in habit set up, you get approximately six attempts. Okay. And then after an hour, you get another six attempts. Okay.

Brent Warner 9:36
Okay, so you don’t have to worry about like getting it absolutely perfect on that first try right after the hour is done. Right.

Tim Van Norman 9:42
Many systems will if you say hey, I want to change my password, it will automatically unlock it as well. Okay. Some systems work some systems don’t so don’t count on that one. But often that will be the case. Now. I will Tell you something that, Brent, you’re a Mac guy. So I’m sorry. But your six attempts go very, very quickly. And the reason I say that is because your cell phone. If it doesn’t for Macs, what they do, and I’ve not seen this on Android, I’ve not seen it on Windows, but your outlook, your Wi Fi, your iPhone, when it tries something and it doesn’t work, it tries it two or three more times immediately. Hmm. And so then it waits a minute or two, and it tries it again. Well, let’s see, it tried it three times. Now in five minutes, it tries to three more times, you’ve hit your six, and you didn’t even realize you had a problem. Okay. So where that comes in is we see it happens a lot in at the end of summer, beginning of the school year. You go in and you change your password. And you’re great. And all of a sudden, how can my computer locked up? Well, because you changed your password on your computer. But did you make sure you change it on the Wi Fi in your cell phone? Did you change it on your outlook on your cell phone stuff like that?

Brent Warner 11:13
Right? You got? You really need like I have a checklist? Because we do password refreshes every 30 days every 90 days. Yeah. And so it’s like, I always forget, it’s just the right amount of time. It’s like, okay, wait, which ones do I need to go change and like, so I I am, I need to make a little checklist of like, okay, I update my calendar, update my email, update my phone, after all the little things that you do, and then do it all at once set aside 15 or 20 minutes to just go do it all at once so that you don’t, you don’t lose it on on the next application. Absolutely.

Tim Van Norman 11:46
And that’s really key. And, and by the way, like in our system, we use Microsoft for our email. So what I do is I literally delete my accounts, from Wi Fi, from Outlook and all of those things on my cell phone. I reboot my computer. And then I change my password. I reboot my computer again. And once I’ve logged in with the new, new password, all of the stuff on my computer starts coming up with the new password automatically. It’s something that’s built into Windows, it’s really nice. And anything that comes up and prompts me, I’ll put it in, then after everything’s running on my computer, then I go back and I reestablished my accounts on my cell phone. Got it, okay, okay, you don’t lose your emails. You don’t, you know, it doesn’t hurt anything. But in reestablishing it, first of all, it gives you a clean account. And it’s got just that new password. And it’s because I deleted it, then my account doesn’t lock. And believe me, I have lots and lots of places where my account is used. And so the chances of me locking up my account is really high. Whenever I change my password, so I go through step by step, every single thing that I can and and that’s how I do it myself. And people I know that people well, but can’t I just changed my password. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Myself, if I delete it beforehand, then I know it’s not going to cause me a problem while in the process. So locking accounts. Yes, it’s a big one.

Brent Warner 13:33
Yeah, for sure. And that’s something we definitely want to be careful of soy. Okay, a couple other ones. What if my computer says to call a number because I was hacked?

Tim Van Norman 13:45
Take your hands off the keyboard, call technical support. Don’t do it yourself. And don’t do it yourself. So it’s a lot harder if it’s your personal device. Right? But if it is, if it is your device that’s on campus, and it’s one of our devices, you know, a campus computer, then there’s a lot of different things that we can do. But number one, never call that number. That number will get you hacked. Yeah. All right. If it’s your personal device, unplug it from the network is a really good thing to do. Turn off your Wi Fi, unplug Ethernet cable, whatever it is, so you no longer have network connection. Take out your cell phone and start Googling. I’d see a lot of times, you’ll see documentation that says hold down the power on your computer, turn it back on and don’t ever go to that website again. Yeah, you know, so sometimes it can be that but this is where I’m not gonna give you answers because I don’t want yeah, I don’t want you getting all – But say “You told me!” – No. Call your tech support and stuff. But a lot of times, it’s, it’s the warning before the big deal.

Brent Warner 15:08
Yeah, this is like the call your it super team. I’m imagining Nick K flying in on it with his cape, you know like taking. So great, wonderful. We’ve got one other one here that’s kind of teacher side, and then we’re gonna switch a little bit to the other. But if my Chromebook keeps loading notifications on the right hand side, what can I do one of these extension issues.

Tim Van Norman 15:34
So basically what happens is you open up Chrome, you go to a website, or whatever, and all of a sudden, it starts popping up news articles, and starts popping up advertisements for things, something like that just starts popping up on your right hand side and notifications. And you go through windows and can’t get rid of notifications, and you look in all of the other things. So what it likely is, is in Chrome, you got an extension installed, it happens all the time. And you’re not going to avoid them, getting them installed, but you can clean them up. So in the upper right hand side, there are three dots up and down. If you click on that, and you go down to extensions, and manage extensions, delete all the extensions, you don’t know that you want. Okay, if you know it, and oh, yes, I really want this. Keep it. If you have any questions and you need it, it can be reinstalled later, right. Okay, so don’t worry about it. But definitely get rid of anything that you do not know. Like I said, it will come back later. If you do want it, I do suggest getting rid of Duck Duck go, I do suggest getting rid of honey and you know anything like that. Even if you want to use it, get rid of it for now, make sure all of those things go away and stop popping up. And a lot of times, if you look at them, the title will tell you which one of those extensions was causing it. So try to read it. And often they’re popping up so fast, you can’t, but try to read it, if you can see that get rid of that extension. And a lot of times it just goes away really, really quickly.

Brent Warner 17:17
Okay, so this one is we’re moving a little bit into some like dealing with students conversation here. But this one is Is it okay to let students use the teachers computer for presentations?

Tim Van Norman 17:33
Um, it is not recommended. But there’s also no way around it a lot of times, that’s okay. So here’s, here’s the deal. Whenever somebody is touching an computer that you’ve logged into they are you. What does that mean? If they’re in Canvas logged in as you they have your view of everything? They are checking your email, if they go to Outlook? They are you know, they’re you? Yeah, well, we don’t know the difference.

Brent Warner 18:03
And they can log into your if your canvas is open, they can they could in theory, jump into your Canvas swap their grade out or you know, whatever else and not see…

Tim Van Norman 18:11
Make changes or view other information. Okay, so. So that said, they’ve got a PowerPoint that they’re gonna load, close your browser, close it not minimize close your browser and make them log into a new browser into their own account and show something. That’s fine. Yeah. So. So what can you do? That’s probably the best way you can do it that or, frankly, I suggest using Zoom. You can use Zoom inside the classroom, if they’ve got a laptop computer, they could get on Zoom, and they can control it from their computer if you just simply open up a zoom session on the teacher station. Oh, yeah, that’s

Brent Warner 18:54
good idea to write. So they could just log in share screen, and then you could put on the teachers computer, but would be just that’s what’s on the projector, right?

Tim Van Norman 19:03
Exactly.

Brent Warner 19:04
Yeah. Okay, great.

Tim Van Norman 19:05
Just think about those types of things. But because that then protects you from somebody doing stuff you don’t want done.

Brent Warner 19:13
Yeah, the thing that I usually do, and you know, I know it’s not the safest one, but but I do have the I do open up a guest browser for them. So it’s a totally different one. And then I also color code my browsers. So I know what and so when when I see that browser open, I’m like, Okay, I know that color. They’re in mine, or they’re not in mine. And so at least that’s another little visual cue there as well. Okay. Last little bit here is what this is just a class disruptive, shouldn’t issue more than necessarily a technical problem, but it does come up quite a lot, especially not right now at the end of the semester, but at the beginning of the semester student gets locked out of or doesn’t have their Wi Fi access for what they’ve never gotten in or something like that. I guess This one kind of my, my little hint is, this is gonna be different from every school, but like, Do you know the best way to get them going without disruption? Because sometimes we’ll send them off to it, for example, and they’re like, Oh, I was gone for 20 minutes. And I’m like, that’s a long time to, you know, to get a password reset was like, was that legit? Was it not? And so just being aware of the process for getting onto Wi Fi on campus, for your students, that’s a little bit different sometimes than for the teachers, right. And the process for resetting passwords on campus, knowing what that looks like for students is a valuable thing. And so it’s not really a question here for for you, Tim. It’s just kind of my little tip here. But I don’t know if he has something to add as well.

Tim Van Norman 20:43
Absolutely. And you’re absolutely right. So how do you know that? Often, there’s a website that you can go to as a student and say, Wi Fi issues? How do I log into Wi Fi, something like that. And they will then list Oh, Chromebook, Windows, Mac, Android, what you know all the different possibilities, and exactly what you do in each case. So know where that is, and maybe the first day of class, pop it up on the screen. And hey, try to get in if you have any problems. You know, here’s an option to get through class, and then please call technical support before you leave the campus. It’s amazing how many times I get a call from somebody that’s at home. My computer didn’t work in the Wi Fi on campus. Yeah, okay. There’s not a thing I can do.

Brent Warner 21:37
And so the one thing that we’ve done too, for our students, is we print those charts out. So there’s like a PDF, and we print them out. And we just have a little packet of them in a in a little vinyl. You know, she, she has holder or whatever. And so it’s got the Mac one, it’s got the iPhone one, it’s got the windows one. And so then we can just pull that out and give the student the paper. So even if there’s like, Hey, I’m not online, so how am I supposed to see this thing or whatever, right? So it’s like, here’s a paper version. If you don’t have that in your classroom, I would recommend just getting a set or two and either carrying it with you or sticking it, you know, in the teacher Tower, or whatever else you have in there, because there’s a couple great ways to get that done. Okay, great. So, Tim, let’s switch over from school issued things to personal devices, right.

Tim Van Norman 22:29
No, nobody ever brings personal devices on campus, right? (laughter)

Brent Warner 22:33
Yeah. So let’s take a little bit of a look at this. Why does it matter what device I use?

Tim Van Norman 22:40
So it matters in a lot of different ways, many of which, hopefully, you don’t need to worry about but everything from if you connect to the Wi Fi, many systems can’t tell the difference between you your personal device and a company device. And so if you’re connected, you could be passing information through the network that shouldn’t be, you could be getting information from the network that shouldn’t, you shouldn’t get things like that. And so just paying attention to it, we care. Because we don’t want to have things on our network that aren’t up to speed. What do I mean by that? If you’re plugging in a Windows XP computer, you might not be able to even connect, right? Windows XP went away a long time ago. So did windows seven, you know, and we’re trying to even make sure those don’t get connected. But sometimes people bring those on, and they want to have it used. Some things will automatically work, some things won’t. So just be aware that there are security issues. There’s a lot of data that’s flying around our network, and we need to make sure that that’s protected.

Brent Warner 24:00
Yeah. And I would, I would say also like, so for example, if you are in a, an old Windows environment, and you’re saying, hey, it’s because this PowerPoint that I have is from that time, or Yeah, I don’t know, whatever reason you might have, I would just suggest maybe you make some time to do a conversion of your things to newer systems. And, and again, you could work with, you know, 10 Someone like you or or you know, just get that make the time to say hey, it’s time to update my, my old files and bring them over or convert them or whatever else we need to do.

Tim Van Norman 24:34
Absolutely. And realistically, they’re gonna run faster. They’re gonna do better anyway. So I know you’re proud of your computer from 1995. But that’s still true. That that is there’s, there’s a reason why, you know, that is considered last century.

Brent Warner 24:55
Okay. So let’s talk a little bit. So there’s – some things are slowing down, but on, privacy on your own device. Right. I think I think maybe teachers are confused about what, you know, what kind of privacy they have on their own device? What are they agreeing to when they join a school’s network? What do we need to know when we’re bringing our own devices on campus?

Tim Van Norman 25:18
So most understand that most of the time when we’re dealing with campus computers and campus resources, they are public domain, or they are publicly owned. Okay, not necessarily public domain, but publicly owned. That means that when you log in, when you log into your computer, it comes up with a message and says you’re agreeing to and you read that. And there’s a whole lot of different things when you’re logging into a computer on campus. Basically, when you’re using the Wi Fi on campus, it is not a private connection to the internet. Yeah. Okay. Now, we say that because while we don’t sit there and watch what you do, there are things that do record stuff. But also, I can’t guarantee that a student or another teacher isn’t running something on their computer and sniffing packets. And we didn’t catch them yet. Because they’re doing something that we can’t, we didn’t see in our as we’re watching. So it’s just like, if you went to Starbucks, okay, you want to make sure you’re up to speed and you don’t share information. But also maybe watch what sites you’re going to, and, and understand that. It’s not completely private. Now, again, we’re typically not going through and watching everything that somebody does or anything like that, in fact, we’re not doing it, it would be an automatic, automated process, who would do it anyway. But there is some level of understanding that you’re going to be paying attention. And this is about campus related tools. So why do I say that because, for instance, we have the things shut down so that students can’t get into certain tools. Because there is no academic reason for them to do that on campus. And we get students complain about it all the time. And it’s like, you don’t have a right to be able to do anything you want on on your device or on ours on campus. And so just understand that that’s the case. Now, that said, there are various policies, there’s board policies, and all of that stuff that are involved in it. So you want to look at your campuses policies and see, but in general, just assume that it’s not as private as you would like.

Brent Warner 27:41
Yeah. Okay, great. So, a couple other quick things here. What, what about if we’re using like outside tools to access campus resources? What do we need to know about there?

Tim Van Norman 27:54
So think about things like an email aggravator aggregator I spelled it wrong in the notes, aggregator. So what I’m talking about is, I myself have five different email accounts. Okay. I love to check it once. And it gets all of them. So I use Outlook to do that. But I know like bread, sometimes you use other ones and stuff like that. Understand that. When you’re doing that, often you’re giving your credentials to another system. And so they may be logging in from China, or from Japan or from wherever they’re from. So a lot of our systems look at they go, Oh, Tim’s in the United States, how could his accounts compromised? Okay, so just understand that if you use those, there may be other things that come up. And so people might be asking you weird questions. So just, it’s pay attention to that. And this happens, email aggregators, calendar tools, stuff like that. All of that just seems to work together. And just make sure that you’re, you know, what’s going on?

Brent Warner 29:11
Yeah, there’s a lot out there for sure. Okay, so Tim, to wrap up, we got just a couple minutes here. Uh, talk a little bit about security. Some of the things like the the little higher end, I mean, I guess we’re kind of leaning towards this anyways, but like, we’ve got like hacking problems went ransomware credentials, all these types of things. Can we just get like the overview of some of these things that we still just want to kind of keep? Maybe even we know this stuff, but we just want to keep diligent or like, have our reasons on why we’re thinking about them?

Tim Van Norman 29:41
Absolutely. So let’s start with credentials. That’s one of the easy ones. Never share your credentials with anybody. If it asks you for your password. The answer should be no. I’m not gonna share even with it, even if you know the person okay. You You should not share them. And they should not be asking. And remind your students of that too. Because like I said earlier, if somebody uses your credentials, they are you, right? We can’t tell the difference. And that causes all kinds of weird stuff to happen. If you’re sharing it with somebody. Why are we worried about hacking, because first of all, hacking is probably less prevalent than everybody hears. But when it happens, it really gets bad. And if something goes wrong, and people start claiming, oh, I got hacked, even if we think it’s not the case, we have to look into it. And it takes a lot of time and energy and stuff like that, even to disprove that had happened. And one of our biggest fears is ransomware. So ransomware is where thing gets corrupted on a computer. And usually it worms its way through a network, and then all of a sudden, blows up everything all at once. everything all at once. And when that happens, it data goes away, data gets taken, and encrypted, and can be displayed out on the internet someplace or something like that. That’s where we hear about the dark web and things like that. local colleges have spent millions of dollars trying to recover from it. In order to recover, we literally have to wipe out our complete systems. So we’re very concerned, we’re watching for it constantly. If you think it happens to you get a hold of us right away, you know, and if the phone is, you know, leave a message, whatever it takes to get through, because we definitely want to know, but and we’re constantly evaluating, hey, what can we do? How do we get around this? How do we protect because the last thing we want is any buddies information to get spread out? Worldwide?

Brent Warner 32:07
Okay, so good things to keep in mind. There’s, you know, I mean, there’s sometimes it’s just refresher, right, like, Hey, what are the things I need to keep thinking about? And, you know, I’m glad glad we’re, you know, some of these are little points here, like, I should probably should think about this side, right. And so, it’s, it’s hard for all of us to keep reminding, and, you know, keep on top of everything. So just, you know, as always do your best, but be aware as well.

Tim Van Norman 32:31
And I know, I sound like oh, this is so easy and all that stuff. Yeah. It can be things like don’t write down your password. Okay, but I’ve got 100 passwords, what do I do with them? I can’t remember them all. So you know, I get it. We there’s reasons ways to take care of that too. Absolutely. Thank you for listening today. In this episode, we took a look at Tech mistakes that teachers make. For more information about this show, please visit our website at the higher ed tech podcast.com. There you’ll find our podcasts and links to the information we’ve covered.

Brent Warner 33:06
As always, we do want your feedback. So please go to the higher ed tech podcast.com and let us know your thoughts. If you have ideas for future shows. There’s a link over there where you can give us your topic ideas for

Tim Van Norman 33:16
everyone at IVC. That’s listening. If you need help with technology questions, please contact IVC technical support. If you have questions about technology in your classroom, please stop by the IVC Training Center in a 322 or contact me Tim Van Norman AT tvannorman@ivc.edu.

Brent Warner 33:32
And if you want to reach out to me about the show, you can find me on LinkedIn at @BrentGWarner.

Tim Van Norman 33:38
I’m Tim VanNorman,

Brent Warner 33:39
and I’m Brent Warner. And we hope this episode has helped you on the road from possibility to actuality. Take care everybody